3/4/2012 Note: Welcome to the 11th post of this blog. If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????" ...or, you can start here and work your way back....I welcome all comments or information you may have. You may contact me at mitchsutton@att.net
The long awaited report from Lucy has arrived and it is truly a mixed bag. My main purpose, as it is noted on the banner of this blog, was to "separate the fact from the folklore." That has been accomplished since the report disputes and questions most of the Millie Sutton booklet published in 1965. I don't think any of us Suttons are surprised. I had to laugh when the ProGenealogists researcher offered his following opinion of the story of John Sutton's death by jumping a horse at the age of 100!
(see Post 1: "He Did What????....The Beginning").
Mr. Researcher: You know the Suttons well! They could always tell a good story. This is just my own take on what may have transpired. Let's call it a "plausible bit of historical fiction."
Just imagine if you will, Millie Painter, Charlotte Page and Dora Polcy standing, as they said, "in the very place where the incident was supposed to have happened." Millie doesn't say who they met that day or who told that story of old John's death..... But I can just picture a couple of Sutton "old timers" telling this tale about John jumping a horse at 100 years old and all of the while winking at each other. Why, the story even ended with the statement that the purported cause of death was documented in the Jackson County Courthouse which was damaged in a fire along with most of the records on August 14, 1872. I'm confident that they were just having some fun with Millie, Charlotte and Dora. Furthermore, knowing my own Sutton Uncles (who were NOT the perpetrators), I would not doubt for a minute that a Sutton would pull your leg and laugh about it until their dying day. As hard as the Suttons worked, they would find time for fun, tell stories and enjoy a practical joke or two. Trust me, I heard many stories of this prank or that tale over the years.....my Sutton aunts and uncles were so much fun and I miss them every day!
Now, in Millie's defense, she got some things right and she did travel "far and wide" to find census records and marriage licenses as well as land grant books. I also know she talked to many Suttons across the area while building the family tree. Yes, the tree also had some problems but I, for one give her credit for her effort. Today we have it so much easier.....just open the laptop and log on to Ancestry.com. No need to travel. You can determine cause of death by the coroner's report instead of meeting old retired gentlemen who will tell you whatever story that comes to mind. But it won't be as much fun!
For you regular readers of this blog, you should remember Post 2, "John's Not The Problem." Well think again. First, our researcher states that Sutton is not a rare surname. He also suggests that often times, people found in census records in familiar counties (i.e., Jackson or Macon) were often grouped together as families. Next, since Millie's book was published in 1966, other details were added which further confound the facts. Millie is surely rolling in her grave as we speak. Further confusion comes from the history of the area. Jackson County was created from Macon County, Macon County was created from Haywood County, Haywood from Buncombe and Buncombe from Rutherford etc. So, not only is John now the problem, we are too! ;-)
John Sutton died intestate and since John had no wife at this time, William, John's first born, inherited the estate in October, 1832. Noted were two bondsmen who along with William, all signed with marks (none could read or write). There were no other papers in John Sutton's estate account.
William, John's presumed son and administrator of his estate (researcher's words) would be the William Sutton living in Macon County (later Jackson County) in 1850. That record states that William was probably born in Virginia in 1792. His wife, Clarissa, was born in Tennessee about the same time. It is technically possible for William to have fathered David, William Jr., Russell, Joseph and James. All were born in Tennessee except for James who was born in Macon County (later Jackson County) .
Big point here....it is technically possible for William to have been the father of all or maybe have been an older brother to some. If John Sutton actually married an Indian wife in 1794 (although there is no evidence) she could have been the mother to all but William. If the adult Suttons living in Macon County in 1850 were all the sons of John Sutton, then it appears John lived in Tennessee from 1805 - 1816 and settled in current day Jackson County by 1822. Furthermore, it is perfectly possible for John Sutton to have married an Indian woman in Cocke County, Tennessee however almost all early records for Cocke County were destroyed by fire (just my luck).
It does appear that Thomas Sutton, resident of what was then Orange County, could have been John's brother. The ages seem to line up and John lived in Virginia during the same time. The researcher says that if Thomas is indeed John's brother then his origins would lead to evidence of John's origins (i.e.,England).
There are several other possible clues in the research that I won't expound upon now because there's a big bombshell you're all going to love! For you regular readers, you know what a mystery Aggie Lossiah has always been to those of us tracing our Sutton roots. Guess what? John never married Aggie Lossiah! The researcher says Aggie Lossiah was a famous Cherokee artist who wrote a memoir of her own life. She was the widow of Henry Lossiah and was not born until 1880 (John died in 1832). She was also the granddaughter of the Cherokee Chief John Ross. Lastly, the researcher points out that the Lossiah surname belonged to only one other person in the entire United States and he was Leander Lossiah from North Carolina. Get this (I'm laughing already) our researcher thinks "someone who knew the real "Aggie" tossed her name into a story they told about John Sutton's Indian wife!" Hmmmm, that sounds familiar. Could it possibly our old retired friends again? I'm laughing just thinking of those old guys telling Millie all of this BS. No wonder we couldn't find poor old Aggie.
It is not surprising that ProGenealogists are encouraging me to continue my research. Based on the many twists and turns, John indeed has become the problem. Our researcher suggested that I start again from a "solid place" in my ancestry (duh, guess that would be me) and from there build a new family history. Gotta say when you're right, you're right. What Now? I'm not sure if I want to dive right back in. I think I'll study this report a little longer. For one thing, this research wasn't cheap. On the other hand, I do want to know more about John Sutton. Lucy wants to talk to me next week (cha-ching). There are no guarantees if I decide to pursue this further but it would be starting from what I know to be true. I'm absolutely sure of the family tree back to my great grandfather, Mitchell. I also think there are a couple of Sutton's still alive who are descended from William who could probably vouch back that far or maybe even to James. Maybe then John will emerge. And then maybe Valley Forge will emerge and maybe even England.
I have to say that ProGenealogists did a very thorough job. The report is well laid out and documented to every point. Without exception, they addressed every bullet of my scope of work. Now I see why it took so long. I won't go into all of the report details in this blog as they would bore most of you. However, if you'd like a copy, I can email it to you. The file is large so I'll need to email a few pages at the time. My email address is mitchsutton@att.net
The long awaited report from Lucy has arrived and it is truly a mixed bag. My main purpose, as it is noted on the banner of this blog, was to "separate the fact from the folklore." That has been accomplished since the report disputes and questions most of the Millie Sutton booklet published in 1965. I don't think any of us Suttons are surprised. I had to laugh when the ProGenealogists researcher offered his following opinion of the story of John Sutton's death by jumping a horse at the age of 100!
"It is not the intention at the onset to set out to disprove family accounts....however, in this case, it appears that as well as intentioned as Millie Painter was, she was imposed upon by others who thought nothing of telling a good story."
(see Post 1: "He Did What????....The Beginning").
Mr. Researcher: You know the Suttons well! They could always tell a good story. This is just my own take on what may have transpired. Let's call it a "plausible bit of historical fiction."
Just imagine if you will, Millie Painter, Charlotte Page and Dora Polcy standing, as they said, "in the very place where the incident was supposed to have happened." Millie doesn't say who they met that day or who told that story of old John's death..... But I can just picture a couple of Sutton "old timers" telling this tale about John jumping a horse at 100 years old and all of the while winking at each other. Why, the story even ended with the statement that the purported cause of death was documented in the Jackson County Courthouse which was damaged in a fire along with most of the records on August 14, 1872. I'm confident that they were just having some fun with Millie, Charlotte and Dora. Furthermore, knowing my own Sutton Uncles (who were NOT the perpetrators), I would not doubt for a minute that a Sutton would pull your leg and laugh about it until their dying day. As hard as the Suttons worked, they would find time for fun, tell stories and enjoy a practical joke or two. Trust me, I heard many stories of this prank or that tale over the years.....my Sutton aunts and uncles were so much fun and I miss them every day!
Now, in Millie's defense, she got some things right and she did travel "far and wide" to find census records and marriage licenses as well as land grant books. I also know she talked to many Suttons across the area while building the family tree. Yes, the tree also had some problems but I, for one give her credit for her effort. Today we have it so much easier.....just open the laptop and log on to Ancestry.com. No need to travel. You can determine cause of death by the coroner's report instead of meeting old retired gentlemen who will tell you whatever story that comes to mind. But it won't be as much fun!
For you regular readers of this blog, you should remember Post 2, "John's Not The Problem." Well think again. First, our researcher states that Sutton is not a rare surname. He also suggests that often times, people found in census records in familiar counties (i.e., Jackson or Macon) were often grouped together as families. Next, since Millie's book was published in 1966, other details were added which further confound the facts. Millie is surely rolling in her grave as we speak. Further confusion comes from the history of the area. Jackson County was created from Macon County, Macon County was created from Haywood County, Haywood from Buncombe and Buncombe from Rutherford etc. So, not only is John now the problem, we are too! ;-)
John Sutton died intestate and since John had no wife at this time, William, John's first born, inherited the estate in October, 1832. Noted were two bondsmen who along with William, all signed with marks (none could read or write). There were no other papers in John Sutton's estate account.
William, John's presumed son and administrator of his estate (researcher's words) would be the William Sutton living in Macon County (later Jackson County) in 1850. That record states that William was probably born in Virginia in 1792. His wife, Clarissa, was born in Tennessee about the same time. It is technically possible for William to have fathered David, William Jr., Russell, Joseph and James. All were born in Tennessee except for James who was born in Macon County (later Jackson County) .
Big point here....it is technically possible for William to have been the father of all or maybe have been an older brother to some. If John Sutton actually married an Indian wife in 1794 (although there is no evidence) she could have been the mother to all but William. If the adult Suttons living in Macon County in 1850 were all the sons of John Sutton, then it appears John lived in Tennessee from 1805 - 1816 and settled in current day Jackson County by 1822. Furthermore, it is perfectly possible for John Sutton to have married an Indian woman in Cocke County, Tennessee however almost all early records for Cocke County were destroyed by fire (just my luck).
It does appear that Thomas Sutton, resident of what was then Orange County, could have been John's brother. The ages seem to line up and John lived in Virginia during the same time. The researcher says that if Thomas is indeed John's brother then his origins would lead to evidence of John's origins (i.e.,England).
There are several other possible clues in the research that I won't expound upon now because there's a big bombshell you're all going to love! For you regular readers, you know what a mystery Aggie Lossiah has always been to those of us tracing our Sutton roots. Guess what? John never married Aggie Lossiah! The researcher says Aggie Lossiah was a famous Cherokee artist who wrote a memoir of her own life. She was the widow of Henry Lossiah and was not born until 1880 (John died in 1832). She was also the granddaughter of the Cherokee Chief John Ross. Lastly, the researcher points out that the Lossiah surname belonged to only one other person in the entire United States and he was Leander Lossiah from North Carolina. Get this (I'm laughing already) our researcher thinks "someone who knew the real "Aggie" tossed her name into a story they told about John Sutton's Indian wife!" Hmmmm, that sounds familiar. Could it possibly our old retired friends again? I'm laughing just thinking of those old guys telling Millie all of this BS. No wonder we couldn't find poor old Aggie.
It is not surprising that ProGenealogists are encouraging me to continue my research. Based on the many twists and turns, John indeed has become the problem. Our researcher suggested that I start again from a "solid place" in my ancestry (duh, guess that would be me) and from there build a new family history. Gotta say when you're right, you're right. What Now? I'm not sure if I want to dive right back in. I think I'll study this report a little longer. For one thing, this research wasn't cheap. On the other hand, I do want to know more about John Sutton. Lucy wants to talk to me next week (cha-ching). There are no guarantees if I decide to pursue this further but it would be starting from what I know to be true. I'm absolutely sure of the family tree back to my great grandfather, Mitchell. I also think there are a couple of Sutton's still alive who are descended from William who could probably vouch back that far or maybe even to James. Maybe then John will emerge. And then maybe Valley Forge will emerge and maybe even England.
I have to say that ProGenealogists did a very thorough job. The report is well laid out and documented to every point. Without exception, they addressed every bullet of my scope of work. Now I see why it took so long. I won't go into all of the report details in this blog as they would bore most of you. However, if you'd like a copy, I can email it to you. The file is large so I'll need to email a few pages at the time. My email address is mitchsutton@att.net
I'm going to keep the blog open as long as there's interest. You have my email address and I would be happy to blog of any new discoveries or interesting news about the Suttons. I'll also continue to pass along any developments from this end.
Let me close this post by thanking all of you who have shared your suggestions and encouraged this journey. It's been strangely interesting to see the blog stats that showed repeat readers from Russia and Canada. Thanks to all of you who logged on to read about my family. To date, there have been 612 page views since November.
Thanks to my first cuz...hope I haven't done the family any harm ;-)....especially our dear Aunts and Uncles. To my new cuz, Cheryl, you and your mom have been invaluable. To you and my other newly found cousins, I look forward to meeting you all face to face. For whatever this has been or will be, I'm very happy to have found each of you along the way. Lastly, to my friends who signed up and followed this blog and showed interest in something this personal. It tells me what kind of friend you are....the best!
Mitch
Thanks to my first cuz...hope I haven't done the family any harm ;-)....especially our dear Aunts and Uncles. To my new cuz, Cheryl, you and your mom have been invaluable. To you and my other newly found cousins, I look forward to meeting you all face to face. For whatever this has been or will be, I'm very happy to have found each of you along the way. Lastly, to my friends who signed up and followed this blog and showed interest in something this personal. It tells me what kind of friend you are....the best!
Mitch
