Meanwhile.....Back At The Ranch.....

12/7/2012 Note: Welcome to the 12th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll backwards. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????  You will need to hit the "older posts" icon located between posts 4 and 5 mark. ...or, you can start here and work your way back....I welcome all comments or information you may have. If you have any problems navigating or have any questions, please contact me at mitchsutton@att.net  I welcome all who are interested in this search for John Sutton.

Merry Christmas to you all!  It's been a long time since my last post but I wanted to update you all as to what has happened over the last months.  In early August, I went to Dillsboro for a long weekend to visit with my first cousin and her family. It was way past time for a visit and we had a terrific time!  Jackson County has grown so much over the years.  I hardly recognized the ride through Sylva.  On Saturday, my new-found cousin (who I met last fall on Ancestry.com) and her husband drove up from Atlanta and joined my Dillsboro cousins and me for lunch.  We spent the afternoon walking through the Old Savannah Church Cemetery where most of the early Sutton settlers are buried. We found the grave marker for John Sutton (our original ancestor) and  the marker of my great grandfather Mitchell Sutton and his second wife Cordelia Cagle.  Mitchell's first wife was Mary Messer who died at the age of 32. We did not find her marker. Anyway, my new-found cousin is the descendent of Cordelia while I am descended from Mary. 

Later that afternoon, we all went to visit my new-found cousin's mom.  She is the last of my Dad's generation and it was a pleasure meeting her.  When we arrived, my new cousin said ,  "Mom, this is Mitchell Sutton".  Her mom took my hands and said Oh! I know he is! He looks just like Dallas!'  Now that was a moment! I never knew my grandfather, Dallas, and there are only a few pictures of him.  

A few weeks back, I saw an advertisement promoting new improvements in the DNA analysis product offered by Ancestry.com.  The improvements included a breakdown of ethnic origin as well as matches to other Ancestry.com clients.  To date, the closest match is a third or fourth cousin.  We both are descended from William Sutton, the first born of John Sutton.  I have not yet initiated contact but may do so a little later. Anyway, my DNA profile shows my genetic ethnicity stacks up as follows:

48% British Isles
37% Scandinavian

10% Southern European
5% Unknown (haven't found the definition of "unknown")

The big surprise is there is no Native American blood there which was always part of the stories told to us growing up. Funny, I posted about the DNA evidence eliminating our having any Cherokee blood....a friend offered the following.

You mean the "We have a Cherokee princess in our family tree" story? I grew up hearing that. One of my cousins took several genealogy classes and for one the instructor started the first day by asking how many had been told that or something similar. Everybody but one person raised their hand. The instructor said, "That's the widest-spread genealogical rumour in the South."

True as that may be, this journey continues to surprise and to this point it has basically disproved most of the written and oral history of the Sutton side of the family.  That  is a dissapointment because there continues to be more questions than answers.  In time, I may pony up again  for a different investigation but for now, we'll have to deal with what we have.  If this is the first time you've stumbled across this blog and are interested in the John Sutton family, there are 11 previous posts of this blog.

I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

Post 11: What Now?

3/4/2012 Note: Welcome to the 11th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????"  ...or, you can start here and work your way back....I welcome all comments or information you may have. You may contact me at mitchsutton@att.net

The long awaited report from Lucy has arrived and it is truly a mixed bag.  My main purpose, as it is noted on the banner of this blog, was to "separate the fact from the folklore." That has been accomplished since the report disputes and questions most of the Millie Sutton booklet published in 1965.  I don't think any of us Suttons are surprised.  I had to laugh when the ProGenealogists researcher offered his following opinion of the story of John Sutton's death by jumping a horse at the age of 100!

  "It is not the intention at the onset to set out to disprove family accounts....however, in this case, it appears that as well as intentioned as Millie Painter was, she was imposed upon by others who thought nothing of telling a good story." 

 (see Post 1: "He Did What????....The Beginning").

Mr. Researcher:  You know the Suttons well!  They could always tell a good story.  This is just my own take on what may have transpired. Let's call it a "plausible bit of historical fiction."

Just imagine if you will, Millie Painter, Charlotte Page and Dora Polcy standing, as they said, "in the very place where the incident was supposed to have happened."  Millie doesn't say who they met that day or who told that story of old John's death..... But I can just picture a couple of Sutton "old timers"  telling this tale about John jumping a horse at 100 years old and all of the while winking at each other. Why, the story even ended with the statement that the purported cause of death was documented in the Jackson County Courthouse which was damaged in a fire along with most of the records on August 14, 1872.  I'm confident that they were just having some fun with Millie, Charlotte and Dora. Furthermore,  knowing my own Sutton Uncles (who were NOT the perpetrators), I would not doubt for a  minute that a Sutton would pull your leg and laugh about it until their dying day. As hard as the Suttons worked, they would find time for fun, tell stories and enjoy a practical joke or  two.  Trust me, I heard many stories of this prank or that tale over the years.....my Sutton aunts and uncles were so much fun and I miss them every day!

Now, in Millie's defense, she got some things right and she did travel "far and wide" to find census records and marriage licenses as well as land grant books. I also know she talked to many Suttons across the area while building the family tree. Yes, the tree also had some problems but I, for one give her credit for her effort. Today we have it so much easier.....just open the laptop and log on to Ancestry.com.  No need to travel.  You can determine cause of death by the coroner's report instead of meeting old retired gentlemen who will tell you whatever story that comes to mind. But it won't be as much fun!

 For you regular readers of this blog, you should remember Post 2, "John's Not The Problem." Well think again.  First, our researcher states that Sutton is not a rare surname. He also suggests that often times, people found in census records in familiar counties (i.e., Jackson or Macon) were often grouped together as families. Next, since Millie's book was published in 1966, other details were added which further confound the facts. Millie is surely rolling in her grave as we speak.  Further confusion comes from the history of the area.  Jackson County was created from Macon County, Macon County was created from Haywood County, Haywood from Buncombe and Buncombe from Rutherford etc. So, not only is John now the problem, we are too! ;-)

 John Sutton died intestate and since John had no wife at this time, William, John's first born, inherited the estate in October, 1832.  Noted were two bondsmen who along with William, all signed with marks (none could read or write).  There were no other papers in John Sutton's estate account.

William, John's presumed son and administrator of his estate (researcher's words) would be the William Sutton living in Macon County (later Jackson County) in 1850.  That record states that William was probably born in Virginia in 1792.  His wife, Clarissa, was born in Tennessee about the same time. It is technically possible for William to have fathered David, William Jr., Russell, Joseph and James.  All were born in Tennessee except for James who was born in Macon County (later Jackson County) .

Big point here....it is technically possible for William to have been the father of all or maybe have been an older brother to some.  If John Sutton actually married an Indian wife in 1794 (although there is no evidence) she could have been the mother to all but William. If the adult Suttons living in Macon County in 1850 were all the sons of John Sutton, then it appears John lived in Tennessee from 1805 - 1816 and settled in current day Jackson County by 1822. Furthermore, it is perfectly possible for John Sutton to have married an Indian woman in Cocke County, Tennessee however almost all early records for Cocke County were destroyed by fire (just my luck).

It does appear that Thomas Sutton, resident of what was then Orange County, could have been John's brother.  The ages seem to line up and John lived in Virginia during the same time.  The researcher says that if Thomas is indeed John's brother then his origins would lead to evidence of John's origins (i.e.,England).

There are several other possible clues in the research that I won't expound upon now because there's a big bombshell you're all going to love!  For you regular readers, you know what a mystery Aggie Lossiah has always been to those of us tracing our Sutton roots.  Guess what?  John never married Aggie Lossiah!  The researcher says Aggie Lossiah was a famous Cherokee artist who wrote a memoir of her own life.  She was the widow of Henry Lossiah and was not born until 1880 (John died in 1832). She was also the granddaughter of the Cherokee Chief John Ross.  Lastly, the researcher points out that the Lossiah surname belonged to only one other person in the entire United States and he was Leander Lossiah from North Carolina.  Get this (I'm laughing already) our researcher thinks "someone who knew the real "Aggie" tossed her name into a story they told about John Sutton's Indian wife!" Hmmmm, that sounds familiar. Could it possibly our old retired friends again? I'm laughing just  thinking of those old guys telling Millie all of this BS.  No wonder we couldn't find poor old Aggie.


It is not surprising that ProGenealogists are encouraging me to continue my research. Based on the many twists and turns, John indeed has become the problem.  Our researcher suggested that I start again from a "solid place" in my ancestry (duh, guess that would be me) and from there build a new family history.  Gotta say when you're right, you're right. What Now?   I'm not sure if I want to dive right back in. I think I'll study this report a little longer.  For one thing, this research wasn't cheap. On the other hand, I do want to know more about John Sutton. Lucy wants to talk to me next week  (cha-ching).  There are no guarantees if I decide to pursue this further but it would be starting from what I know to be true.  I'm absolutely sure of the family tree back to my great grandfather, Mitchell.  I also think there are a couple of Sutton's still alive who are descended from William who could probably vouch back that far or maybe even to James.  Maybe then John will emerge. And then maybe Valley Forge will emerge and maybe even England.


I  have to say that ProGenealogists did a very thorough job. The report is well laid out and documented to every point. Without exception, they addressed every bullet of my scope of work. Now I see why it took so long.  I won't go into all of the report details in this blog as they would bore most of you.  However, if you'd like a copy, I can email it to you. The file is large so I'll need to email a few pages at the time.  My email address is mitchsutton@att.net

I'm going to keep the blog open as long as there's interest.  You have my email address and I would be happy to blog of any new discoveries or interesting news about the Suttons. I'll also continue to pass along any developments from this end.

Let me close this post by thanking all of you who have shared your suggestions and encouraged this journey. It's been strangely interesting to see the blog stats that showed repeat readers from Russia and Canada. Thanks to all of you who logged on to read about my family. To date, there have been 612 page views since November.

  Thanks to my first cuz...hope I haven't done the family any harm ;-)....especially our dear Aunts and Uncles. To my new cuz, Cheryl, you and your mom have  been invaluable.  To you and my other newly found  cousins, I look forward to meeting you all face to face.  For whatever this has been or will be, I'm very happy to have found each of you along the way. Lastly, to my friends who signed up and followed this blog and showed interest in something this personal. It tells me what kind of friend you are....the best!

Mitch

Post 10: It's Finished!!!!!

2/24/2012 Note: Welcome to the 10th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????  ...or, you can start here and work your way back....I welcome all comments or information you may have. You may contact me at mitchsutton@att.net



Lucy called: the John Sutton research is completed and the binder will be shipped early next week.  I asked her how she felt about it.  She said, she thought I would be very pleased and that the researcher made progress in almost every area of the project scope. Stay tuned.....I'll try to get some of the info out to you as I go through it next week. I don't think I'll get it until Wednesday so hopefully I can get something out later in the week.  Stay tuned!!!

Post 9: We Could Be Getting Close!

2/22/2012 Note: Welcome to the 9th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????  ...or, you can start here and work your way back....I welcome all comments or information you may have. You may contact me at mitchsutton@att.net


Hi all!
I had a note from Lucy, my ProGenealogists.com case manager: 

Hello Mitch,
Your session is still out to research. As I explained to you at the start of the session, your researcher is very experienced in colonial American research and is in high demand. I anticipate your session back very soon from my conversations with him. I will let you know when your session returns.  It has been a pleasure in assisting you with your research.

Lucy

It appears that things may be wrapping up. I am exited about getting the report and I'm also trying to be realistic that the results might not be as extensive as I have hoped. We've all probably waited for Christmas morning to find we didn't get that go-cart or whatever over the moon gift we asked Santa to bring. We will soon see! With that said, I promise a full disclosure of my experience with ProGeneaologists.com once the report is received.   I told you guys up front I was not a patient man!  And yes, I'm still trying to figure out to which side of the family that personality trait belongs. 


Since we last talked, I've made the acquaintance of a new third cousin once removed.  She lives in Jackson County and she and her husband volunteer with the Jackson County Genealogical Society once a week.  She told her mom about me and as it turns out, her mom and my dad went to school together.  She emailed me a picture her mom had of my Dad from a high school reunion some years ago. There again is another example of if you are a Sutton and were born, raised or have kin in the south-western mountains of NC we are likely related. I only wish my Aunt Bess and my Aunt Kathryn had been able to have the tools and research options we have today.


 So since I started this project, I have made the acquaintance of new cousins Clara, Cheryl, Jim and Karen none of who I knew before this journey. I hope I have the opportunity  to meet each of you face to face sometime down the road.  And I found out that our long time family friend, Doris, is also related!  Not bad....not bad at all.  Stay tuned!

POST 8: Tick Tock

1/21/2012 Note: Welcome to the 8th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page. The first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????  ...or, you may start here....I welcome all comments or information you may have.

Hi all!  Wanted to push out a short post to let you know "Lucy" emailed me this week and we're making progress...

"Hello Mitch,

Your research is in the queue for our Colonial Research specialist. It is now my first session in line for him. I want to let you know it can take time to review all the necessary records during the research process. Early Colonial research can be very difficult and several records will need to be reviewed which can take extensive time. Also, no new research by the client will be accepted because the researcher may have already reviewed records before the client sent them creating a duplication of effort. It has been a pleasure assisting you with your research. I will update you again as the work proceeds."

I'm happy that we're "in the queue" If any of you ever to decide to hire Progenaologists.com, at least you'll know the drill!  Now we wait some more....Tick Tock! And so it goes.


Question: Have you ever met someone with the same last name as yours and thought,  I wonder if we're related?  Here's an example: It was 1966 in Charlotte, North Carolina. My dad sold his company and merged with a larger organization.  While being introduced to the staff of the acquiring company, he met the comptroller who, when hearing dad's name, said that her mom was a Sutton.  Turns out the comptroller was also born and raised in Jackson County just a few miles from where my Dad was raised.  Over the years, this lady became a close family friend and although we would often laugh about being related, no one could find a connection.  That is, until last week!  She is (by definition of Ancestry.com) "my 2nd  cousin of husband of paternal 1st cousin". I'm not at all sure what that all means but I  think it likely translates to a 2nd cousin X times removed but I have never been able to get a handle on all of that. Math was never my strong subject!

 The same thing happened with a fellow I met on Ancestry.com. It's the same guy whose wife was an account manager for my employer 20 years ago (See Post 5; paragraph 5). I recently asked him to send me some information on his Sutton side so as to see if we were related.  He agreed, but confessed he really didn't know a lot about his Sutton ancestors and had always wanted to know more.  Within a couple of hours I found we both are descended from John Sutton and both of us are descended from John's first born son,William, as well.  From there, my line continues through William's son James.  My friend's family comes from William's son David.  Here's the kicker.....although he didn't know much about his Sutton ancestors, he got a pleasant surprise when he found that he and his wife had just happened to have named their daughter the same name as a great aunt...it's a very uncommon but beautiful name. I call that too cool and I'm also humming the theme to the Twilight Zone! So, again, (as defined by Ancestry.com) this fellow is my 4th cousin once removed!      


I'm beginning to think it's very likely that if you're a Sutton and have any ties to the southwestern mountains of North Carolina, we're kin! I've gotten the biggest kick out of meeting new cousins on this journey and from all of the correspondences, they are all very nice folks! If you've never said hi to me, please do.  I look forward to meeting many more of you!  


That's all for now....until next time.....

• While working on Ancestry.com, I found this picture of the grave of my great grandfather and the man I'm named after. I have never been to this cemetery where many of my ancestors are buried but looking forward to that trip! It is the old Savannah Baptist Church Cemetery just south of Dillsboro, North Carolina.  John Sutton, our original ancestor to settle in America, donated the land for the church and asked to be buried there.  His grave was the first.  For you Sutton's, Cordelia Cagle was Mitchell's second wife.  My great grandmother was his first wife, Mary Messer.

POST 7: So How're Those New Years Resolutions Working Out for You?

1/8/12 Note: Welcome to the 7th post of this blog.  If you would like to see the earlier posts leading up to this point, please scroll to the bottom on the page.....the first post is entitled, "The Beginning....He Did What????  ...or.....start here....


Happy New Year!  I  hope all of you had a wonderful Christmas and that 2012 is being good to you.  So, how many of you are still hanging in there with your New Year's Resolutions?  I am happy to say that I began running again the week after Christmas.  It's been almost 5 years since I quit and so far, so good.  

If you're new to our group, this blog is my attempt to document the journey in finding out all I can about John Sutton, my fourth great grandfather, and  to separate the facts from the folklore. It appears now that the journey will likely take most of the year. I know we're all anxiously waiting for the day when we can see what my case manager "Lucy" at ProGenealogists will find. Several of you are sharing stories and bits of information.  All of that is being funneled on to "Lucy" and her staff (with your permission).  Please continue to share....it helps the overall effort and I enjoy the comeraderie.  In the meantime, there are some other  things happening I want to share with you all.  


Now, my clan of Suttons always liked to name their prodigy after family.  

• I know my first cousin is named after both of her grandmothers 
•  and her grandson is named after his great, great grandfather 
• and my dad, Burch Mitchell Sutton, gets his middle name from his grand dad, Mitchell Sutton 
• and I am a  "Jr."......so... with that case made, proven and closed, I've often wondered but never knew where my first name "Burch" came from.  It's not  a very common name and based  on the aforementioned naming practices, I suspected it was a family name but I had never heard anything about a "Burch".  I asked Dad about it a few years ago but he had already started showing some memory loss and told me he just couldn't remember where the name Burch came from.  He laughed and said, "I guess mama and dad just liked it..."

Despite the to-do list I had planned to tackle over the holidays, I found some time to spend on Ancestry.com cleaning up those little green leaves they call "hints".  I had not been on the site lately and when I logged on, I had so many of those green leaves that I needed a mulcher and a rake!!  As I sat reviewing hint after hint, hour after hour, I came across a record that said "Burch Messer, son."  It took me a while to figure it out but Burch Messer was my paternal grandfather's first cousin.  Digging some more, I found that Burch was born and raised on Barkers Creek.  Sadly, I also found that he died in 1915 at the age of 22 of pneumonia.  My dad was born a few  years later and now that all of the grandparents, aunts and uncles are gone there's no way to say for sure, but based on tradition, I'm confident Dad was named Burch after the young Mr. Messer. Initially, there wasn't much information on  Burch Messer but I was able find a death certificate and a couple of federal census rolls.   He apparently had aquired  land  on Forneys Creek in Swain County.  He was a farmer as was his dad, Robert. I'm still surprised by the nuggets I find while researching my family tree. And....I'm very glad to have found our namesake.... Burch Messer.


In other news, my recently found "new" cousin that I met on Ancestry.com was digging around and found out that the name of the ship that carried John Sutton and his brothers to America was "The Favourite"."Cuz" also had mentioned two published volumes of work that she had a chance to see. Her mom as well as "Gene Hunter" are contributors. One is available for sale however the other volume is out of print. I forwarded all of this info on to 'Lucy' for her files so that when our researcher gets caught up and starts on my case, they can hit the ground running...  


Lastly, there's the "discovery" on the Discovery Channel of a "notorious" Sutton! (no pun intended yet there it is) Some of us guys at work were talking about a new show we'd seen over the  weekend called "Moonshiners".  It's a so-called "reality" show about a family of moonshiners operating  in the south-western Virginia high country.  There's some doubt as to the "reality" aspect of the show but it is entertaining.  My cohorts at work were more interested in one of the show's characters, Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton.  A legend in his own time, Popcorn has run moonshine all of his life....first from Haywood County, North Carolina around Maggie Valley and later in Cocke County, Tennessee.  After his last conviction and facing an 18 month prison stint and suffering from cancer, Popcorn committed suicide by carbon monoxide in 2009 at age 62.  Well, the guys at work were asking if he was a relation.  I told them no, as I had done a cursory look around on Ancestry.com. I still see no relation but I did find a very interesting  quote from an an interview with Popcorn....

"My Grand Daddy, little Mitch Sutton, sold a man a case of likker on the credit. It went on and on and the man wouldn't pay Grand Daddy for the likker so Grand Daddy thought the debt was an honest debt. He went to the Waynesville Haywood County Courthouse and lawed the man for the debt. It went to court and the court made the man pay Grand Daddy for the likker and give Grand Daddy 30 days in jail for selling the likker to the other man. They put him in jail which was on the ground floor instead of the top story of the courthouse like the jail is now. Grand Daddy stayed 3 days in jail, then broke out and went home. So I guess the law felt sorry for him because he had small children and never went to bring him back."

Popcorn is quick to point out Little Mitch had a civic minded side: "My grand daddy helped build the first Baptist church that was built on Hemphill. He made likker all his life. I've been told this to be the truth, too. He took the likker and sold it and took the money and helped buy the materials to build the first Baptist church on Hemphill that was ever built."

Marvin "Popcorn" Sutton 1947-2009

To quote a famous comedian...."now that's just funny, I don't care who you are!!  Some of you Suttons out there may be  related to Popcorn...if you are, I need to see your family tree!


But just fer the record.... me.... nor any of my kin that I know of ever went by the name "little Mitch!" 


Anyway, it was good coffee break fun!  Check your local listings for the Discovery Channel.....the show is more re-enactment than reality but it is entertaining....and the tape is old.....Popcorn died in 2009!

"little Mitch Sutton" -  1972

Next time:  I'll let you know ;-)

POST 6: First Report From "Lucy"

12/28/11 - Note: I have gotten notes from several people who didn't realize there was more than one post. There are 6 posts. The blog always has the newest post on top with the older ones further down the page.  If that still doesn't work, please let me know.  Mitch


 I received an email from "Lucy" on Wednesday which was exactly one month from the day we first spoke in November. So, the good news is that it appears I'm on her calendar for the 14th of each month. However, I have to say I was a little confused by the email I received. Here is the text:

"Hi Mitch, I have assigned a researcher to your case. I believe I told you from the beginning that he is a very experienced researcher but his case load is long. For this reason, it does take several months before the work is completed. I wanted you to be aware of this time wait so you would know when I send updates what is happening."

With Regards,
"Lucy"

My translation:  Nothing has happened since November and nothing will happen until "several" months from now.

 In my conversation with "Lucy" a month ago, she told me she had assigned my case to a researcher who is extremely good and is the "go-to guy" with cases involving Colonial America.  She also told me that this researcher was  finishing up on some school work and that his case load was long but she assured me that this was the dude we wanted on the case.  I told her then that I was not in a hurry and was willing to wait several months (at least six months) for a good product. We reviewed my written goals and she assured me we would talk in a month.  My reply to the email received on Wednesday follows:

Hi Lucy,

You did inform me of the case log and also of the researcher's work on obtaining an additional degree. I am not in a hurry....you told me it could be 6 months or more before the casework is completed. I would rather you take all of the time you need and not rush. Since we are just beginning, I am not sure what I'm expecting with the monthly updates. I was thinking there would be some progress as we go. Are you saying that I won't really be getting any information or "peeks" into the search until the end? I was curious as to whether or not you were able to contact "Gene Hunter" (referred to in Post 2; paragraph 2 as"da man"). Also, several friends suggested I start a blog to journal this process so I have and it's getting a good following. I have already met three cousins I never knew before and have made a few new friends.

Looking forward to hearing from you!
Mitch Sutton

So, it appears the email was our first report and it also appears that I misunderstood how this would go. What I heard in our November call was that work would start but would take months to complete because of the researcher's case load.  I may yet get clarification from "Lucy", but I now think that we will not be getting any substantial updates until the case is actually started.  "Lucy" always maintained this was going to take some time and I am willing to wait however long it takes. I can see an upcoming post entitled,  "I Can't Wait Until Mid June, July or August"  What is the old adage?  Good things come to those who wait?  After all, we've waited this long.....another year won't be so bad.  I'll let you all know as soon as events transpire. 

 In the event we don't talk for awhile, I want to take this oppotunity to thank you all for your interest in this project.  Keep those comments and suggestions coming!  Lastly, I want to wish each of you a very Merry Christmas and a most Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year!!

Oh!  I saw the following post in one of the Ancestry.com message boards today.
John Sutton Sr. was born,April 2,1732 in Prince Georges Co.,Maryland.Died 1832 in Jackson Co.,North Carolina. John had 3 wives. Polly's mother was John's second wife,a Cherokee Indian (name unknown). Polly was born in 1794 & married Thomas Millsaps

Now, that's another hard right turn in the road!.....I thought it was fairly well established that John was born in England and immigrated  to America in 1755.  And..... this post doesn't mention the name of the wife we actually know...Aggie Lossiah.  From the message board post, one could then make the argument that there were two wives who were of Native-American descent so maybe, just maybe I am part Cherokee again after all!! Just another example of why I'm doing this project!  To eliminate as many of these contradictions as we possibly can!


Next Time: "How're those New Year's Resolutions working out for you?"




and now I'll leave you with a little seasonal humor!

POST 5: "I Can't Wait Until Mid December!'

Hello again!  I hope all of you had a terrific Thanksgiving!  This is a wonderful time of year as families and friends gather to give thanks for so many blessings. And now, we look forward to the joyous celebration of the birth of our Savior!

I want to thank all of you who have encouraged me on this road of many questions as we try to find out more about John Sutton. I say "we" because I know you guys are out there walking along with me. I can't wait until mid-December! That’s when  my first monthly consult is scheduled with "Lucy", my genealogist case manager. As I’ve pointed out before, I’m not a patient man (I’m not sure what side of my family to credit for that trait), but until that conference, it's basically a waiting game. My case manager tells me to count on at least six months for the entire project.

This first conference will give us an indication of how we are doing so far and what, if anything, has been found. I view this process a little like a football game. It’s early in the first quarter....will we make the first down or are we second and 10? I have done a little digging and the research company, ProGenealogists, has impressive credentials but I wonder what percentage of cases are duds and produce little or no new findings? On the other hand, why would NBC's "Who Do You Think You Are?" and Ancestry.com contract with them to provide research if they are not the best?  My case manager did tell me there is going to be a great story in the next season of "Who Do You Think You Are?" that has its roots in North Carolina. I'll let you all know when she gives me an air date.

I hope you Suttons out there will forward the news about this blog to other Suttons and anyone else who may be interested. I'm very serious about that.  Perhaps some of you have information that could "break the case"! Or maybe your grandmother remembers a story or knows  about a document in the bottom of an old trunk. Or maybe you think I'm off my rocker or have  found glaring factual errors in my posts. Let me know! In the meantime, I welcome any questions, information or even criticism.  I've always been one who subscribed to the notion, "the more the merrier!"


Speaking of  "the more the merrier",  I had another "new" Sutton encounter. Twenty-three years ago I began my career at Carolinas Healthcare System in Charlotte.  Within the first few days, I was introduced to one of our account managers who represented a major service provider. Her last name was Sutton.  I, of course, asked her where her husband was from and she said he grew up in the North Carolina mountains.  I asked where and discovered he was from the same county as my dad's family. For several years we would try to figure out if or how we were related. One clue from her mother in law moved that possibility a little closer but was never confirmed. Times change and account managers get promoted and move on so that was the end of that. 

Fast forward 18 years.  One evening last week while reviewing old message board posts on Ancestry.com, I came across a post that, as I read it, made me think of my old account manager......things like the particulars about where her husband was raised and where his dad was born. Then it hit me, this was likely the husband of my account manager.  So, I emailed the guy and asked him if he was married to "Jane" Sutton, introduced myself and offered some of the research I had since he also was looking for ancestors related to John Sutton. The next morning I spoke to "Jane" for the first time in 18 years and it was confirmed that yes, I had the right Suttons!  I am very happy to have reconnected with a former vendor and friend AND to be able to meet another Sutton on the same journey. I  did forward to him some of the research I had so maybe we'll discover how we're related after all!

Unless there is a major development, I  most likely  will not post again until I hear from "Lucy", my case manager.  The thought does cross my mind that nothing new will be found or our questions may remain unanswered.  I'm okay with  that. The way I see it, I could be spending this time and effort doing much less important things than looking for where I came from and making new friends, acquaintances and  yes, even meeting family along the road. Who knows......Santa may come early this year!

Next Time: First Report from "Lucy"

POST 4: I Miss My Aunt Effie's Cornbread!

I miss my Aunt Effie's cornbread! Although my mom got close to the mark, I don't think I've ever had cornbread that good. It would literally melt in your mouth and it was from scratch.....no mix for Effie! She did buy her cornmeal at the store but the rest was all up to her! And you better not touch her pan....it was seasoned just the way she liked it. She was a character as were all of my dad's brothers and sisters. Come to think of it, all of the aunts and most of the uncles were also great cooks so we always had good food. In fact, the first born, Uncle Chick ran a restaurant known far and wide as the Greystone Cafe. They were loads of fun! Looking back, I think they saved up all of the stories and jokes from the time we left from one visit until we arrived on our next. We were never board....they were always doing something to keep us laughing. We were just like kids sitting on the front row at the Greatest Show on Earth. It wasn't a circus, it was better. You knew they were doing their best to entertain us and they were successful. They were successful because they were having as much fun as we were! I took friends to visit a couple of times and the friends gave Five Stars on both the food and the hospitality.


My dad was one of six children born to Dallas and Amanda (Mandie) Brown Sutton. Even to this day, I don't know a lot about their lives. My grandmother died 6 years before I was born and "Pappaw" died when I was three. "Pappaw" cut timber for a living. I remember Dad saying he was a little man but strong as an ox! They moved several times as Dad was growing up. The family was living in Dillsboro when he was born in 1921. Later, they lived on Dick's Creek and I've seen records where perhaps they had lived on Green's Creek before Dad was born. By the time Dad went into the Marines during WWII, they had moved to Long Branch which is where they settled for good. My first cousin can set me straight on this but the house was actually purchased by my Aunts Effie and Bess who worked in the factories in Ohio during the war.


As I write this, I'm laughing while remembering so many of the visits and the stories that were told. You see, my Aunt Effie and Aunt Kathryn (who we all called Kat) never married and lived in the home place on Long Branch so their house was always home base during our visits. In the evening, our other Aunts and Uncle's would arrive and that's when the fun really started. Like I said earlier, they saved tales from one visit to the next and it wouldn't be long before they would start telling what had happened since our last visit.


Some of my favorite stories were......Aunt Kat catching a man trying to steal her chickens......bottom line, Kat reminded him as he was backing away from her shotgun` that if he wanted a chicken, the A&P and Winn-Dixie both sold them.


Then there was the story of Aunt Effie running head-on into a wildcat as she was crossing the branch late one evening. We were told she scaled a ten foot rock retaining wall as a short cut to the back door of the house.


 Uncle Ab, who was married to my Dad's sister, Bessie Margaret (Aunt Bess) was always carrying on with my sister and me and we always loved it. There's many story's I could tell about Uncle Ab but this is my favorite: There was a Cherokee woman who lived up the dirt road from Aunts Kat and Effie. Her name was Dory. Uncle Ab portrayed her more like an wild Indian and told stories of hearing her do war dances on Saturday nights (which, coincidentally, was usually when these family gatherings would happen). On more than one occasion, my sister and I were reminded of Dory if the adults thought we needed to settle down. On this particular night, my sister and I were being a little over rambunctious. All of a sudden there was a loud knock at the door and Uncle Ab, who was sitting by the door yelled, "It's Dory!" You've never seen two kids leap into the arms of whoever was nearest so fast. My sister jumped onto Aunt Bess's lap and Aunt Bess said my sister's heart was beating out of her chest! Of course, Uncle Ab, sitting by the door was the source of the knocking! I can still see him, head back, laughing at his latest "got cha!"


I could go on all night with stories but I will leave you with this one about Aunt Effie and Kat. My aunts worked in a textile plant. One winter afternoon they got home around 4:30 and sat down to rest for a minute before starting supper.  Aunt Kat said the next thing she knew, Aunt Effie was hollering, 'Kat, get up, we're late for work!" Well, Aunt Kat jumped up, they changed clothes and Aunt Kat fixed their bag lunches and they were out the door and in the car. They raced the short trip to the plant and headed up the steep hill to the employee parking lot. As they crested the hill, they noticed that the parking lot was empty. You see, when Aunt Effie woke up, she looked at the clock and it said 6:30 and she just assumed she and Aunt Kat slept through the night in their chairs and that it was 6:30 in the morning but it was 6:30 p.m. and they had not overslept....they had only fallen asleep for two hours!!!!!


We've had a lot of laughs and good times. But for all that the Sutton's were.... they were good people....honest and hard working. They loved and feared God and were faithful. They had character, morals and convictions.....they stood for what they believed and made no compromise.


So, on this Thanksgiving night, I am thankful for my family.....My sister and nephew, My Mom's side, My Dad's side and my Sisk sisters and I don't only miss my Aunt Effie's cornbread, I miss Aunt Effie and all of her brothers, sisters, their wives and husbands. I  sure hope I make the roll up yonder 'cause I can't wait to see you all again!

• Realis Daniel (Chick) Sutton (June 26, 1909 - October 17th, 1970) and Mayme Evelyn Jarrett Sutton (May 17, 1912 - May 5, 2000)

• Effie Mae Sutton ( March 8, 1913 - September 15, 1996)

• John Archelus Sutton (May 21, 1915 - September 18, 1991) and Aida S. Sutton (birth/death unknown)

• Bessie Margaret Sutton Brooks (January 25, 1918 - January 16, 2005) and Willard Albert Brooks (April 27, 1921 - June 1, 1991)

• Burch Mitchell Sutton (March 3, 1921 - January 23, 2007) and
  • Sylvia Jane Pruette Sutton (February 8, 1925 - September 3, 2007)

• Kathryn Elizabeth Sutton ( August 5, 1926 - January 5, 1988)

Next Time: I Can't Wait Until Mid- December!

                                         

Dad and "Pawpaw" in the yard on Long Branch....    

Uncle Chick in the main dining room of the Greystone Cafe and Lodge.                 

left  to right"  Uncle Ab, Aunt Aida and Uncle Johnny around 1957 at the Long Branch House.  Yep, that's me at about age 3!   

POST 3: "Dangit Man, I've Told Everybody I Was Part Cherokee....."

Dangit, Man, I've told everybody I was part Cherokee since I was a kid.  Now I find out I'm not?
Somebody please find some Cherokee blood in my line so I dont' have to tell everybody that I was "mistaken"! I guess this is the price you pay for digging up bones! OK, I am going to let this go now and I'm going to move on.  Dangit!

I'm happy to report a very positive turn of events this past week. I met a cousin I didn't know. I think we determined we were "half-second cousins????". I was on Ancestry.com last weekend and this past Monday, I got a messsage that said, "You are my relative! My grandfather was General Jackson Sutton. He had a brother named Dallas. His father was Mitchell Sutton. My mother still lives in Dillsboro!" So,it turns out that our grandfathers were half brothers! The two of us have messaged each other all week. Even though we have never met, her mom grew up with my dad and the rest of my aunts and uncles. Her mom told her that she used to play with my aunts "when they lived on Dick's Creek." Turns out, her mom had done some work with a geneaologist in the area but had "put the geneaology bug to rest" some time ago. Friday, my newly found cousin was emailing me all morning with new tips and records.. She said her mom was "on fire"again and pulling out all kinds of records that I, in turn, was immediately sending to my case manager at Progeneaologists. And my case manager was rapidly replying, "very interesting!" and "WOW!" Dangit!

With my parents and all of the aunts and uncles gone, I'm excited to have found two more cousins (the mom and her daughter) who are also interested in our heritage plus the mom has heard the old stories! I have a first cousin in Dillsboro and we have always been very close. We are in the same boat in the way that all of the elders we knew and their recollections and stories are gone. So, it's terrific to meet a Sutton I didn't know and that her mom is also interested in this project and has been active in our family history. It's just too cool. Dangit!

 
I'm fairly certain..., no....let me correct that.....I am certain that this posting pace will not continue. I had several years of questions and frustrations over the many twists and turns in the family history I had learned as a boy. But as I've gotten all of that backlog out of my system, things will slow down now and the posts won't be as frequent. I will post as news arrives and I will post after each monthly consult with my case manager. I appreciate all of the comments and encouragement and even the occassional "are you crazy" but the bus is moving now so I'm on board for the duration. If any of you Sutton's are out there, let me hear from you! Again, I am only journaling my path here. I know many have spent hours and years digging into John Sutton's past and for that I am truly humbled and thankful. Without you, we would be nowhere! If an organization like Progeneaologists can add or deepen our understanding of our ancestor, John Sutton, then why not see where that road takes us? Dangit!

Next Time: I Miss My Aunt Effies's Cornbread!

POST 2: John's Not The Problem.....

Ok.....second post:   The truth is, John’s not the problem. Aggie is the problem. Who’s Aggie, you ask? She’s John’s wife….. or at least one of them. Now don’t panic….we’re not Mormon!!   You see, for the earlier generations of Suttons,  Aggie Lossiah was the one and only Mrs. John Sutton.  If you Google Aggie Lossiah, you will get a page full of references of her relation to John Sutton. But.... there is mounting evidence that Aggie was one of several possible Mrs. John Suttons and therefore some of his descendants may be remiss in calling Aggie our 4th great grandmother. This is especially likely if you are descended from William as I am. He was likely John's first born. I have read posts that support the hypothesis that Aggie was the last of John’s wives and that the prodigy listed in genealogy trees as his kids may be (1) the children of other wives or (2)may have even been John’s grandchildren. Take a break and breathe deeply here….my head swims on all of this as well.
  

While we’re regaining our equilibrium, I think it only fair to make the following disclaimer. I am not, nor ever have been, or ever will be a detective which is evidenced by the fact that I folded and gave up my own search and instead gave good money to someone else to do it for me. However, there are  folks within the Sutton family who have done research for years and it is because of their hard work that the trail to the truth is possible. So, if you’re reading this, just know that this is the story of my journey and I am grateful for your efforts. What I have read on various message boards makes me acutely aware of the years that some people have put into the history of this family. I am in awe of that ability, perseverance and dedication. And.... make no mistake about it, I am taking my journey because of the questions you’ve asked me to consider with your research. I have to acknowledge one person that is referenced on many message boards and who, I believe, is considered by the vast majority to be the expert on the John Sutton family. Although I have never spoken with this person, he is the one person who I believe keeps the rest of us digging and looking for the truth. I won’t mention his name because I haven’t spoken to him or asked his permission but I just want to say thanks for your volumes of work and I hope you’ll take the phone call from the genealogist I hired because I told her you are da man! 

Now back to our “problem child”…..Aggie Lossiah. One of the few common agreements is that Aggie was a full blooded Cherokee. In an excerpt from a letter written by John in 1777, he says, “ George Washington told me to go home from Valley Forge. I told him I was going back to the mountains and marry an Indian..."   There are Ancestry.com hints that indicate the marriage to Aggie could have been in Virginia. In 1775, John would have been 35.  Given the times in colonial America, he could have married earlier and it is likely the previous wives died. On any account, it appears that all we know is that Agggie  lived and married John. To my knowledge, there’s no record of where she’s buried so looking back, I probably should have called this post, “Where’s Aggie?”  Although I’m sure Aggie Lossiah will be in and out of our journey, I can't help but feel like we've lost Aggie and that, my friends, is a shame...... There weren't  death certificates or marriage licenses in 1777 colonial America. Just the handing down of stories from generation to generation.  As I pointed out earlier, if you Google "Aggie Lossiah", the name most associated with her is John Sutton......and we've lost her.


Next Time: "Dangit Man, I've Told Everybody I Was Part Cherokee....."

The Beginning.....He Did What.????

So, my fourth Great Grandfather died at 100 years old jumping a horse....yeah, I know what you're thinking but it's documented as the cause of death in the county courthouse. The thing is, he jumped a split rail fence flat footed just minutes before. John Sutton was the old man's name, and he was born April 2, 1732 somewhere in jolly old England and died in 1832 in the beautiful mountains of Jackson County, North Carolina.  I still wonder if he and the boys were "drinking the corn" that fateful day or was he just in that great of shape at 100 years old, but be what it may, following is the text of this tale from a booklet written in 1965 by one Mary Sutton Painter.

"I have talked to alot of people and heard a lot of stories. One of the most interesting stories I heard was about how John Sutton died. Charlotte Page and Dory Poley were with me at the time the story was told, and we stood where the incident was supposed to have happened. The story goes something like this: One day in 1832, John was standing just below his house with some other men, when one of them said that John could jump the rail fence in front of them flat footed. Well, he did jump it flat footed. About that time someone rode up on an old plug horse. Someone in the crowd said I'll bet Uncle John can jump that horse. Well, he just backed up about two steps and jumped the horse. When he hit the ground, he was dead. The Jackson County Court House lists his death as happening just as I have said.John lived to be 100 years or older. He was married to a full-blooded Cherokee named Aggie Lossiah. John came from England and I have a map of England in my possession.The first Sutton family reunion of Jimmie Sutton's descendants was held at Millie Sutton's house in 1965. Eighty five of his descendants were present.

Millie Painter from her 1965 History of the
John Sutton Family

May God Bless YouMillie Sutton Painter"

Now, with a story like that you naturally want to know more about this man of the frontier, right?  But from there, the road forks many ways with several different ideas and some credible research (not by me) suggesting that the life of John Sutton is not necessarily as we were told. So, after four years of  poking around on my own,  I hired a professional genealogist to tow me outta the ditch. I am not a patient man and I don't like to see my lifelong childhood ideas about where I came from suddenly turned on it's ear.  Pray for us Suttons....there's alot of questions that need to be answered. The group I hired produced the TV series "Who Do You Think You Are?" so I am hoping I'll have a better idea of who I am in about six months. The goal is to get some answers and to separate the fact from the folklore although I gotta tell you, the folklore is much more fun!

Before I go further and I'm sure you couldn't tell, but I've never written a blog or anything else before now and I don't know the rules.  I will try my best not to slander or embarrass my family, friends or anyone else who's name may appear in this journal but if I should offend, it is unintended and I pray you'll not sue. I'll even do my best to keep my politics to myself!! I just want to record this journey and whatever it finds...... and know at the end, that I learned something..... whether it is about  myself or of life. Buckle up! 

Next Time: John's not the problem.....